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	<title>Comments on: Start saving!</title>
	<link>http://www.fireandknowledge.org/archives/2007/04/18/start-saving/</link>
	<description>A web site by Joshua Sowin that addresses culture, books, technology, ecology, religion, and other topics.</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 13:53:43 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Josh Sowin</title>
		<link>http://www.fireandknowledge.org/archives/2007/04/18/start-saving/#comment-19915</link>
		<author>Josh Sowin</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2007 16:15:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.fireandknowledge.org/archives/2007/04/18/start-saving/#comment-19915</guid>
		<description>Good points, Travis. Obviously people should pay off debts first.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good points, Travis. Obviously people should pay off debts first.</p>
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		<title>By: Travis Seitler</title>
		<link>http://www.fireandknowledge.org/archives/2007/04/18/start-saving/#comment-19911</link>
		<author>Travis Seitler</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2007 15:56:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.fireandknowledge.org/archives/2007/04/18/start-saving/#comment-19911</guid>
		<description>Josh,

I just wanted to point out an observation I had. Specifically, this post implies that:
a) your audience is presently capable of meeting all of their existing financial obligations (providing for their families, giving) while still setting some aside; and
b) charging usury (that's how you accrue interest with a savings account) is commendable.

Just wanted to point out that there's many reasons for not doing these things... and not all motivations imply you're being like the "lazy fool."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Josh,</p>
<p>I just wanted to point out an observation I had. Specifically, this post implies that:<br />
a) your audience is presently capable of meeting all of their existing financial obligations (providing for their families, giving) while still setting some aside; and<br />
b) charging usury (that&#8217;s how you accrue interest with a savings account) is commendable.</p>
<p>Just wanted to point out that there&#8217;s many reasons for not doing these things&#8230; and not all motivations imply you&#8217;re being like the &#8220;lazy fool.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Josh Sowin</title>
		<link>http://www.fireandknowledge.org/archives/2007/04/18/start-saving/#comment-16829</link>
		<author>Josh Sowin</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Apr 2007 13:58:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.fireandknowledge.org/archives/2007/04/18/start-saving/#comment-16829</guid>
		<description>Hi Philipp,

Thanks for the interesting overview of Switzerland's pillar system! I didn't know about that.

The US uses social security, which is taken out of all worker's checks. This money is used to pay for those who are already retired, although the money is supposed to be for you. But the system doesn't work. Many (most?) people take more than they put in -- thus the widely held view that the system will collapse soon if the government doesn't change something. When you retire you start getting monthly (?) checks from the government that is supposed to supplement an IRA or pension.

There is also medical insurance (medicare) that we pay for in our checks, but we don't get it until we retire. I'm not too sure how that works; I only know I pay for it.

As for IRA or medical insurance, we are not required to do that. Employers usually provide medical insurance (or pay for half of it) and some kind of IRA benefits. Larger companies provide pensions to certain workers, but that seems to becoming rare.

Josh</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Philipp,</p>
<p>Thanks for the interesting overview of Switzerland&#8217;s pillar system! I didn&#8217;t know about that.</p>
<p>The US uses social security, which is taken out of all worker&#8217;s checks. This money is used to pay for those who are already retired, although the money is supposed to be for you. But the system doesn&#8217;t work. Many (most?) people take more than they put in &#8212; thus the widely held view that the system will collapse soon if the government doesn&#8217;t change something. When you retire you start getting monthly (?) checks from the government that is supposed to supplement an IRA or pension.</p>
<p>There is also medical insurance (medicare) that we pay for in our checks, but we don&#8217;t get it until we retire. I&#8217;m not too sure how that works; I only know I pay for it.</p>
<p>As for IRA or medical insurance, we are not required to do that. Employers usually provide medical insurance (or pay for half of it) and some kind of IRA benefits. Larger companies provide pensions to certain workers, but that seems to becoming rare.</p>
<p>Josh</p>
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		<title>By: clonic</title>
		<link>http://www.fireandknowledge.org/archives/2007/04/18/start-saving/#comment-16817</link>
		<author>clonic</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Apr 2007 11:21:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.fireandknowledge.org/archives/2007/04/18/start-saving/#comment-16817</guid>
		<description>In Singapore, it's a "three-pillar" thing too. The first pillar can be withdrawn to pay for your housing, the second pillar can be withdrawn to pay your medical fees. The third pillar can only be withdrawn at retirement age.

For health insurance, money is automatically deducted from your "second pillar" account to pay for health insurance. If you don't want health insurance, you can always choose to opt-out. But since most people are apathetic, and don't really mind the cheap insurance, very few bother to opt-out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In Singapore, it&#8217;s a &#8220;three-pillar&#8221; thing too. The first pillar can be withdrawn to pay for your housing, the second pillar can be withdrawn to pay your medical fees. The third pillar can only be withdrawn at retirement age.</p>
<p>For health insurance, money is automatically deducted from your &#8220;second pillar&#8221; account to pay for health insurance. If you don&#8217;t want health insurance, you can always choose to opt-out. But since most people are apathetic, and don&#8217;t really mind the cheap insurance, very few bother to opt-out.</p>
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		<title>By: Philipp Keller</title>
		<link>http://www.fireandknowledge.org/archives/2007/04/18/start-saving/#comment-16806</link>
		<author>Philipp Keller</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Apr 2007 06:59:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.fireandknowledge.org/archives/2007/04/18/start-saving/#comment-16806</guid>
		<description>Hi Josh.

Thanks for this post. I would be very interested in your thoughts about this decentralized security system.

In Switzerland there are three "pillars" each person has for his old-age provision.
The money you put into your first pillar is mandatory: actually it isn't for yourself but for the people that are now retired. This pillar doesn't really work because there are more and more old people and of the young people nobody is really believing that he will get something out of that pot once he is retired.

Than there's the second pillar which is the IRA you described. But again this is mandatory, but just for those which work. For every employer the percentage of the IRA is set and the employee doesn't have a right to change. So there are employers that put more into the IRA and those that don't spend so much into IRA.

Then there's the third pillar which is completely voluntary. We can also get tax benefits for money put into this pot plus we can use this money to start a company or to build a house.

Now my question: How are things different in the US? What I often heard and find very pleasing is that you guys are not obliged to do anything. That is you can look for ourself whereas in Switzerland we are forced to save our money in a particular manner (also health insurance is mandatory) and I don't really like that as people again are not "trained" to be self dependent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Josh.</p>
<p>Thanks for this post. I would be very interested in your thoughts about this decentralized security system.</p>
<p>In Switzerland there are three &#8220;pillars&#8221; each person has for his old-age provision.<br />
The money you put into your first pillar is mandatory: actually it isn&#8217;t for yourself but for the people that are now retired. This pillar doesn&#8217;t really work because there are more and more old people and of the young people nobody is really believing that he will get something out of that pot once he is retired.</p>
<p>Than there&#8217;s the second pillar which is the IRA you described. But again this is mandatory, but just for those which work. For every employer the percentage of the IRA is set and the employee doesn&#8217;t have a right to change. So there are employers that put more into the IRA and those that don&#8217;t spend so much into IRA.</p>
<p>Then there&#8217;s the third pillar which is completely voluntary. We can also get tax benefits for money put into this pot plus we can use this money to start a company or to build a house.</p>
<p>Now my question: How are things different in the US? What I often heard and find very pleasing is that you guys are not obliged to do anything. That is you can look for ourself whereas in Switzerland we are forced to save our money in a particular manner (also health insurance is mandatory) and I don&#8217;t really like that as people again are not &#8220;trained&#8221; to be self dependent.</p>
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